Well yeh on a load circuit you get what is needed, larger voltages will increase power. That would be similar to the starter circuit on a "normal" vehicle using heavy wires between the battery and the starter. I was referring to your complaint about running 72 volts to the handlebars instead of a relay setup on what I assume would be a control circuit. Engineers do that because they want to and its not just the Chinese.
Engineers love voltages above 12v. Lets them use smaller wires (higher gauge) due to Ohm's law. Smaller wires are cheaper, less weight, take less space, etc. I had several debates with engineers at a US based world recognized company that were betting that basic automotive electrical systems would be replaced with 48v dc systems by 2015. We weren't directly in the automotive industry but they had associations. And that wasn't with electric cars or even hybreds, just basic vehicles. With tiny wires all over the things that are fragile as hell. They would come up with all of these hair brain ideas and poor bastards like me would have to try to implement them.
Good job. Your video's are nice and clear - good lighting, Wish I could manage that. I noticed you shamelessly cast aside your rim protectors pretty quickly in the task, been there. I think every tire I ever changed required a 15 minute fight and then it would just about fall on. Craziest thing. I cut some pieces of garden hose and would slide them on the tire spoon. They would cut through after a few uses but the good news is that you get a lot of pieces from a garden hose.
The torque sensing is in play from bottom to top.. Physics would dictate that the load presented to the driven pulley would increase with speed. I actually find it easier to think of it as load sensing rather than torque sensing. But either way the amount that the load is leveraged against the driven pulley movable sheave is affected by the angles of the slots. So if the slot angles vary (curved) then the sensing impact will change throughout the CVT shifting. Basic CVT tuning can cover up some of the torque sensing parameters and I think that some folks may be "washing out" some of the TS benefits by over tuning the flyweight/contra spring setup.
Something to keep in mind is that these sorts of gearing charts and calculators work quite nicely in manual geared systems. You record the various gear ratios along the drive train along with the drive wheel OD, calculate and have a accurate answer - if the engine is spinning x rpm's then the machine is going y mph. But these GY6 machines have basically a second transmission, the CVT, which has infinite gearing. That can schew the math. I used to have a calculator that I made up for snowmobiles, same sort of thing, but I couldn't get any where trying to include the CVT ratio's. I decided to consider the CVT only at the 1:1 ratio which essentially ignores it from the equation. But if the CVT can actually up shift beyond the 1:1 (I don't know if these can or not) that will add to the top speed if it can pull it. The other thing with the CVT is the Torque Sensing feature of the driven pulley (angled slots) . For example the Torque Sensing will see a higher geared gearbox as an additional load and try to counteract it by forcing a lower gear ratio within the CVT. Of course this is theory and how much of it translates to real world I don't know. I'm not sure if these smaller CVT get as much impact from the Torque Sensing as the larger CVT's. That's why testing is so important.
The US scrapper's have been accepting crap that they never would have taken in the past. That's because the Chinese would buy it. There's your result.
On the axle, I have a ASW (name changed to ALM - American Land Master ) 200 UTV. The 7150, 6150 and 200 have some similar parts. I think they have some good tech folks there, just might not be the one that takes your call. They may be able to sub a different part number for you.
I included a video of my GY6 150 in a four wheel cart, ASW / Menards YS200, hope it shows up. I hooked up a tube to the crankcase breather going into a cup of water with the engine idling . That is a totally stock healthy engine. No oil usage at all. You can get an idea of the amount of air movement / turbulence . I'm curious, with all the head replacements going on with these powerplants, do the new heads come with the vent baffleplate installed or do you use your old one, or have to fab something to fit?
MJSfoto1956, you make mention of doing a uphill standing start to tune your cvt. I'm still trying to get a handle on these smaller cvt's (I'm pretty well versed on larger snowmobile cvt's. Generally "normal" loads would be dealt with by the basic cvt tuning and "abnormal" loads (uphills , unusually hard acceleration , extra weight such as a passenger or cargo) would be dealt with by the Torque Sensing function. Even though the cvt functions have a combined effect and multi-run comparisons are very important, you may be better off doing your base tuning on flat and level with "normal" throttle.
Here's another "outside of the box" design. Arctic Cat use's this piston in their 600cc, 2 cyl, 2 stroke direct injection engine. The slot allows one of the fuel injectors to spray directly on the piston pin bearing. Compare this to the photo Pistonguy provided and notice the difference in skirt lengths. His racing piston is crazy short and this is plenty long in order for the slot to be safely enclosed.. Now this piston isn't in a factory race engine, but AC claims it has 600 class leading 120+ hp. I've always wondered how much skirt to cylinder rubbing goes on and how these different respective lengths would affect that.
Oop's, miscommunication alert. My point there was with the unregulated vs. regulated. I think there are far more scooters with AC headlights than with DC headlights although DC systems seem to be getting more common. You can't rely on headlights being on or off as a method of determining AC or DC. As far as the diagram you presented, I thought you were using that to modify your machine. That diagram has DC headlights. I don't think it is as similar to your machine as you may think. Or maybe not?
The flameout switch is labeled left to right as IC, E, AE, TL I believe. IC = ignition circuit? its wired as a kill switch E = Earth? ground AE = no clue. The wiring goes to the meter indication (dash light), the tail light and the headlight dimmer switch. TL = no clue. The wiring is the switched 12v dc + circuit (your black wire circuit). That switch is shown in the lower left switch block. The switch block shows two positions or modes. 1. part circle with no x (kill off ?) 2. part circle with x (kill on ?) I believe that the switch block is shown wrong. I think that the jumper on the right (AE - TL) should be a row up (kill off ?)
The auto choke is AC powered. That is the only thing on the AC side of the lighting system. The ignition is AC powered as well but that is powered by the AC ignition power coil not the lighting system. I haven't seen a GY6 electrical system yet that used unregulated AC.
The circuit you provided has DC headlights in original format. There are two bulbs that each have a low beam and a high beam. Your mod replaces those with a low beam bulb and a high beam bulb. That will affect the way you wire the relay control circuit. Even so, that is a DC circuit. Your switched 12vdc + is not complete. Going be hard to explain - I"ll do it in stages. This is where I wish I was better with graphics or video. I'm going off a diagram I have titled TaoTao Quantum Tour 150. Its a bit easier for me to read the text and I think it is the same as yours. This pertains to your black lines on the diagram and I will refer to lines that cross but do not make electrical contact as "crossing lines" and lines that cross and do make electrical contact as "intersecting lines". 1. Going to the ignition switch terminal "Batt" go down 7 lines. That is a intersection (I'll call it I1). It only goes left 2. From I1 go left a short distance to I2. 3. From I2 go up to the Flameout switch far right terminal TL. 4. Go back to I2 and go left to "Meter" "oil press gauge"
That looks great. Looks like a aux power plugin your adding? If so they are notorious for overloading and blowing fuses, If it does not have its own fuse, I would add one specifically for that. Otherwise you may find yourself without headlights. I noticed that you have AC relays for headlights, why AC. Not sure what your up to there(relay control circuits not shown) and I am curious. I think I might see a problem depending on your design..
Great idea. A good way to familiarize yourself with your system. Its like solving a puzzle. I have that diagram labeled as a TaoTao Quantum Tour 150. Its a bit hard to read the blurry text. I like to go through these diagrams and find clues as to what the specs are. This diagram I spec'ed as: Stator:Single phase, 8 pole (my diagram is labeled as 8 pole), full wave, AC style. CDI: AC powered Auto choke: AC powered, 5 ohm/5 watt current limiting resistor. Everything except CDI and Autochoke is DC powered. Lighting circuit: 15 amp rated, approximately 180 watts. Battery: 12v 7AH. Side bracket flameout switch (I believe it to be a sidestand killswitch). Oil gage Various bulb wattages shown.
Ah yes, the mystery black wire. I haven't found any official factory explanation but the general notion is that some RR's have circuit design that can allow reverse current from the battery to discharge through the RR when the engine is not running which will drain the battery. The black wire being connected to switched +12vdc can electronically disconnect the RR charge circuit from the battery and prevent discharge while the machine sits. Not all RR's have this setup. The blocking diode that you have on your rig serves the same function. It allows current to flow from the RR to the battery for charging but blocks discharge current going from the battery to the RR. The only definite way to tell success is to run it for a bit and see if it is charging properly and that the battery is not draining down when it sits.
The top diagram matches your description of the Wht wire powering the auto choke but its a 7 wire RR. The bottom diagram matches your description of the RR output going to the blocking diode, battery and lights.
Not sure how many wires that RR has. I'm thinking 6? One plug with 3 yellows and one plug with Wht, Red, Grn? Its possible that the Wht RR output wire can be used to power the auto choke. I'm confused by the photo. Looks like RR Red(+12 v dc output to battery) connects to Grn/Wht which is spliced to a Grn? If so, that's not good. Electrons don't care what color the wires are if you rig things up right at the other end but that system uses Grn as the chassis ground.
I'm certainly interested. I love the mechanicals of this stuff and am learning a lot about the tuning and aftermarket parts available. I have studied my machine pretty thoroughly and have a couple of points I'd like to bring up, but I'll make separate threads so as not to hijack this one. One thing I don't see discussed much is the torque sensing function. I'm pretty well versed on the snowmobile side and am interested to hear how it plays into the scooter side.
Naw, I've got dialup on the desktop PC and whenever a page like the "Enter username and password" comes up, I panic and scramble to enter something before the thing locks up. So SD12 came from thin air. I have the internet on my phone also but a ... yeah. Thanks all for the welcome.
Lots of great info here. I'm amazed at how much people are messing with these CVT's and the availability of aftermarket parts. I come from the world of snowmobile CVT's and have quite a bit of experience with the Polaris P85 systems in particular, mostly with maintenance and repair, very little with aftermarket modding (quite spendy). There are some major differences but also similarities. I would suggest breaking the system into 3 sections for simplicity: 1. Basic CVT section. Variable drive pulley, drive belt, variable driven pulley 2. Clutch section: Clutch backplate, clutch arms and pads, clutch springs, clutch bell 3. Torque sensing section: The angled groves on the driven pulley movable sheave.