Tong Jian Buggy Motor Vs Scooter Motor

19 posts in this topic

Posted

I didn't get as far as I wanted to on my documentation tonight. Here's what I have so far:

This is my 2008 American Sportworks Fox Carbide 7150:

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From the back:

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Up the skirt looking at the oil cooler and my beautiful JT Sprockets X1R2 520 chain:

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A look at the oil cooling ports. They are the square sided ports:

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The front of the engine with the passenger seat removed:

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Top-down look at the carb:

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Air cleaner and electrical box from the back:

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CVT cover and exhaust from driver side:

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The exhaust comes out on the CVT side of the engine and uses the kick-starter hole as a mount:

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The CVT with the cover off. I have a stock clutch with 1000rpm springs, 1500rpm contra, NCY variator with 14G sliders, stock drive face:

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A new CVT belt. I only use Kevlar because a belt that can't outlast a tank of fuel is no belt at all:

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Never buy the NCY variator. The damn ramp plate got squashed by the drive boss and is stuck on the crank. Should've bought the Hoca:thawp::

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NCY must have screwed up because I ordered a PTFE coated variator and they sent me a non-stick pan:fallchair:. The grinder in the background is completely unrelated. I've only had this variator 1/2 of last summer:

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The stock variator that lasted years:

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This is why I had to replace it:

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This happened because it never had these from factory:

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Sorry I didn't get to the measurements tonight. My dad's truck needed a surprise oil pump which took longer than expected to replace. I will get those measurements as soon as I get that dang ramp plate :flamethrower:.

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Posted

Awesome Pics!

Everyone that uses the NCY Teflon variator has the same issue. 

 

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Posted (edited)

Bye bye, NCY! 'Murica takin' over!

59ee8d7049d60_100_43141.thumb.JPG.3d9fbd

So I got that stubborn ramp plate off the crank. Didn't gall the shaft as much as I thought it would. I'm going back to the stock ramp plate and NCY variator.

Here's some pictures of the outside of the gearbox:

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This one is from underneath the gearbox. The back of the gearbox is at the bottom of the pic, the engine is at the top, countershaft is at the left, CVT at the right:

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I tried to snap a picture of my measurements but that was a bit of a train wreak:

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You probably can't tell what's going on in that last picture. I thought a drawing of the shaft would be better:

Tong_Jian_Crank_PTO_Drawing.thumb.jpg.fd

That's what I have for tonight. I need a bearing to come in before I close the CVT back up. Do you want any other measurements before I move on? Should I measure the input shaft to the gearbox?

And sorry I didn't make my measurements in mm. I'll be damned if I could find my metric caliper.

 

 

scan0001.pdf

Edited by TheDullCarbide

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Posted

yup thats +1 on the coated NCY

Its juts a cheap spray on coating, I didn't expect it to last any amount of time, the coating on mine started coming off within minutes.

Here are my pics

686-ankle-biter-nibbi-clutch-ncy-vari-upgrade

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Posted (edited)

yup thats +1 on the coated NCY

Its juts a cheap spray on coating, I didn't expect it to last any amount of time, the coating on mine started coming off within minutes.

Here are my pics

686-ankle-biter-nibbi-clutch-ncy-vari-upgrade

Yuuuuup. I was also thinking about the NCY racing clutch. That ain't happening now. I guess it's time for me to learn.

The only good NCY part I got was a 1500rpm contra spring. Then again, how could you possibly screw that up?

Edited by TheDullCarbide

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Posted (edited)

 

Tong_Jian_Crank_PTO_Drawing.thumb.jpg.fd

That's what I have for tonight. I need a bearing to come in before I close the CVT back up. Do you want any other measurements before I move on? Should I measure the input shaft to the gearbox?

And sorry I didn't make my measurements in mm. I'll be damned if I could find my metric caliper.

 

Okay, so now I know for certain your crankshaft is different than the GY6 Scooter crankshaft.... I have edited your drawing..... I don't have time for measurements, but what I put in red is the area for the kick-starter gear... So, I can see why you can use a GY6 scooter variator and clutch, but not a crank.... 

Also take note, I am willing to wager the starter clutch / flywheel shaft side is different as well...I can't say YET for certain that yours is exactly like the Polaris RZR, I can say for certain you do not have a scooter crankshaft. 

 

 

Tong_Jian.jpg

Heres a GY6 scooter crank

 

GY6_crankshaft_150cc.jpg

Edited by DMartin95

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Posted

I was wondering what that taper was. When the engine is assembled, does it protrude into the CVT case, or is it in the crankcase? Does the ramp plate seat on it?

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Posted (edited)

Found a picture of a crank on the interwebs. It looks like it's missing the timing sprocket. This is what mine looks like but I definitely have the sprocket on the PTO side.

Tong_Jian_Crank_Difference.thumb.jpg.6fe

Now this is interesting...here's a picture of my crank in the manual for my buggy:

Tong_Jian_Crank_3.thumb.jpg.9a9ae16d82dc

Do you think my oil seal is riding on that taper? This is getting really confusing. Would the manual that came with my buggy lie?

New question for you, Dmartin. What bearings are on the crank? More importantly, what is the ID of them? Let me explain:

Tong_Jian_Crank_4.thumb.jpg.0a68cae8f143

Edited by TheDullCarbide

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Posted

I was wondering what that taper was. When the engine is assembled, does it protrude into the CVT case, or is it in the crankcase? Does the ramp plate seat on it?

I took some pictures and grabbed a measurement for you.

 

Tong_Jian.jpg

GY6_Crankshaft_150cc_01.jpg

GY6_Crankshaft_150cc_02.jpg

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Posted

Is your pic from a scooter or buggy engine? I just edited my last post if you didn't catch it.

Also, how does your ramp plate sit with that taper?

 

 

 

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Posted

1.) Found a picture of a crank on the interwebs. It looks like it's missing the timing sprocket. This is what mine looks like but I definitely have the sprocket on the PTO side.

 

2.) Now this is interesting...here's a picture of my crank in the manual for my buggy:

Do you think my oil seal is riding on that taper? This is getting really confusing. Would the manual that came with my buggy lie?

1.) The other side is completely different as well. The sprocket is different, length and different tapers.... Look at the crank pic I provide next to the one you provided from FOX parts...  Without question, the one from fox parts is what you have, not the one from the manual.

2.) Lie is a pretty extreme word.... I would say it's something more similar to them using one manual to cover many models.... Happens all the time with scooter manuals... About as generic as one can get... 

 

My Pics are from GY6 150cc Long Case scooter engine (157QMJ)

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Posted

1.) The other side is completely different as well. The sprocket is different, length and different tapers.... Look at the crank pic I provide next to the one you provided from FOX parts...  Without question, the one from fox parts is what you have, not the one from the manual.

2.) Lie is a pretty extreme word.... I would say it's something more similar to them using one manual to cover many models.... Happens all the time with scooter manuals... About as generic as one can get... 

 

I don't even know if the one from fox parts is mine. Where's the timing sprocket? And look at the webs. Mine don't look symmetrical like that.

 

 

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Posted

Also, how does your ramp plate sit with that taper?

The taper is covered by the kick-starter gear and the ramp plate makes contact with that.... The taper does not go into the seal. 

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Posted

The taper is covered by the kick-starter gear and the ramp plate makes contact with that.... The taper does not go into the seal. 

Oooohhhhhh :ohmy:. That's the difference. My engine doesn't have a kickstarter anything. There is still a hole in the CVT cover about where the kickstarter would be, but it has a big standoff in it for a muffler mount.

Also, I think I'm glitching out the forum. I made two posts without attachments and it included them anyway.

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Posted

I was hoping to get the CVT buttoned up today but my bearing didn't come in yet. I got another point to make with my CVT cover:

I've read about other GY6's, scooter and buggy, having 6 short bolts and 2 long bolts holding the CVT cover on. My GY6 has 8 identical bolts:

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The difference is that my cover has 6 long bosses (in place of short bolts) and 2 short bosses (in place of long bolts). I gotta admit, I like my design better:

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Posted

Just yesterday I purchased 2 short case CVT covers for some project engines I have... I think the color is lame and I will repaint, but even still, I think they look cool! 

 

Short_Case_CVT_Cover_150cc_01.jpg

Short_Case_CVT_Cover_150cc_02.jpg

Short_Case_CVT_Cover_150cc_03.jpg

Short_Case_CVT_Cover_150cc_04.jpg

Short_Case_CVT_Cover_150cc_05.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Tonight I took the CVT apart again so I could change back to my 14g sliders. The 12g/14g setup didn't "shift" like other forums promised, it just ate up my top end power like a set of 13g but that's a whole other discussion. While I was down taking off the exhaust, I thought I might show off my studs to @pistonguy. I like them a bit better than stock because they're beefy as all hell:

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While I was taking that last picture, a wire decided to fall on my safety glasses:

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Ahhhhh...So THAT'S why my speedo stopped working!:doh:

And now some pictures of my gearbox:

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Heck, why not add the exploded view from the manual:

Tong_Jian_Gearbox.thumb.jpg.a04cfc3e22a5

Edited by TheDullCarbide

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Posted

Alright, long time no see. Got some more pictures of the gearbox without the upper swingarm in the way (it's finally getting welded after 2 years).

First is the gearbox from the blower side of the engine without the rear mounting plate and tensioner:

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Next is a blurry picture from the back of the engine:

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And finally, from the blower side WITH the rear mounting plate and tensioner. The yoke on the top threads into a bracket on the upper swingarm:

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The countershaft has a 21mm minor dia. and a 25mm major dia. The width of the splines is 5mm. The stock sprocket setup is 16/32 with ANSI 50 or 530 chain. I converted to using a JTF569 driver sprocket and a modified JTR273.39 driven and JT 520X1R2 chain. I have an 11, 15, and 17 tooth driver that I can switch out depending where I'm riding. The 17 is good for races and the 15 is good for all-around whatever. I haven't tried the 11 yet because of my frame, but that's gonna be my towing/yard work sprocket.

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Posted

Well well well, am I screwed or what:

100_4436.thumb.JPG.75442ffc8d9acb8638fec

It's that dreaded P. I was just about to put the upper swingarm back in place and this caught my eye. It is on top of the CVT-side of the case, centered front to back. I never noticed this before because it was just in the right spot to be hidden under the electrical box that's welded to the upper swingarm. Glad I caught this but now I got an A8 cam to throw in the art bin.:whacky086::violin:

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