47 posts in this topic

Posted

Hey Guys,

I am trying to figure out if my Quantum 150 is AC or DC, since I want to buy some LED replacement headlight bulbs. Does anyone know if I'd be ok getting DC or is this machine AC?

Thanks so much!

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Posted

You have an AC CDI.

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Posted

Thanks Dan!

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Posted

Sure thing

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Posted

Well I finally got a hold of some LED headlamps! ūüė鬆Prior to this I tried the blue halogens and while they weren't bad, they were still yellow and also seemed to draw more power even though¬†they are rated 35W/35W like the stock bulbs. These LEDs however are fan-cooled 20W/35W and are very bright and pure white in color. They have good beam throw and pattern, and a distinct high/low beam difference, so they should be legal. The only issue I had was that the mounting bracket is held in place with a small screw and nut, and the screw hole was placed such that when installed in the headlight housing, the bulbs were upside down and so the high and low beam patterns were all messed up. I remedied this by drilling a new screw hole in each bracket 180 degrees from the original, and used¬†that to mount the bracket to the bulb instead, effectively flipping the bulbs the right way up in the headlight housing. But anyway everything works great now, and I am very happy with them. They come fitted with bullet connectors, so I took the stock¬†headlight wiring harness and snipped off the original bulb holders, leaving a bit of wire and fitting bullet connectors to them just in case I ever want to put them back on for whatever reason. Then I fitted the remaining wiring harness with bullet connectors and connected the LEDs to them.¬†They were $14 each on Amazon. Had to wait 3 weeks for them while they came from China, but it was well worth the wait!

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Posted

Thats Darn nice

Thanks there Tex good job.

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Posted

Nice work! :rockon: 

 

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Posted

Well I finally got a hold of some LED headlamps! 

Do you by chance still have a link to the set you bought on Amazon? 

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Posted

Can you post I ride from work between 2:30am and 4:30 am could use a good set like that

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Posted

Thanks guys! I gave them a good test out last night on my way home from work and they worked great on my Quantum 150!

Here's the link to the ones I bought:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072MMYNNG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I chose them specifically for the wattage, the fitting (obviously) and the positioning of the high and low beam LED chips. It made sense to me since it mimics the stock bulb filament positions.

Thanks again guys!

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Posted

Btw, when changing the mounting bracket, you first have to remove the silver shroud that covers the chips and circuit board underneath, it just pushes on to the bulb and pulls off. 

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Posted

One weird thing I have to report. You may recall that I changed out all my dashboard indicator lights for T10 LEDs. Well with these LED headlamps, the High Beam indicator light LED burns out in about 10 mins! The first one melted, the second one I tried melted the solder and the thing fell apart before the plastic could melt. I put the original incandescent indicator bulb back in there for the High Beam dashboard indicator and it seems just fine. Kinda sucks because it's nowhere near as bright of course, but it's better than nothing. I'm wondering if this might be due to the headlamp circuit being AC like the CDI? The T10 LEDs I got have a built in rectifier in each one so it doesn't matter which way the current is flowing - they still light. It lit for a few mins then burned out. Never had this problem with the original stock headlamp bulbs. So a little worrying, but it seems fine now I put the old incandescent indicator bulb back in the dash as I say. Just wanted to let you guys know.

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Posted

My concern with most LED replacements has more to do with the beam pattern (which in many cases is obnoxious to oncoming traffic) rather than compatibility (which can be remedied with bridge rectifiers and/or relays). See the following youtube to get an idea of what I am talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQF5ESBHLrw 

Which leaves the question: how do you find the beam pattern with these new LEDs? Can you snap a picture of what kind of pattern these puppies throw (especially the low beam)?

Thanks!
Michael

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Posted (edited)

Hi Michael,

I did post a few pics of the beam pattern outside and in the garage, on high and low beam. But here's some taken when it was much darker. There's no street lights on our driveway so it's real dark there. All the illumination here is from my bike headlamps. So you can clearly see the beam pattern, on high and low beam. The way they work is that on high beam the low beam stays on and the extra LEDs for the high beam also come on, so you end up with 6 LED chips per bulb on with high beam, 3 per bulb for low beam.

As for my blue high beam dashboard indicator light problem, I have ordered a blue 12V AC T10 led bulb, so hopefully that will be able to handle the supply better on the headlamp circuit. I'll let you know once I receive it!

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/landscape-bulbs/194-led-bulb-5-smd-led-tower-miniature-wedge-retrofit-lan/3305/#/attributes/14

I have also found a 12V AC-12V DC converter for the headlamps since they are supposed to run on DC - there does seem to be some flicker at low revs with the headlamps, my phone video camera picks it up as a kind of phasing effect that changes with engine revs, so this kinda indicates to me again that the headlamp circuit is AC - so I am also thinking about ordering a couple of these converters (you need 1 for each bulb due to the wattage handling limit of the converter). The headlamps seem fine, but I am worried the AC may be damaging the LED Driver electronics box they each have (see pic above), unless this is able to handle the AC supply? Would be nice to get rid of the slight flicker I sometimes notice at low revs either way.

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/power-supplies/12v-ac-to-dc-converter-module/1725/4134/

They have a 3A current limit which should be ok, since P/V=I so 35W/12V=2.92A so just under the line!

bike_beam_pattern_high.JPG

bike_beam_pattern_low.JPG

Edited by TexasScoot

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Posted (edited)

I am pretty sure I am on the right track here with the whole AC thing for the blue dash indicator light. I just did the math and 12V AC is equivalent to¬†‚ąö2 x 12V = 16.97V Peak!!! So basically I have been slamming that poor little 12V DC T10 LED with 17V, so no wonder it melted lol.

This image shows what I am talking about. (for reference ¬† ‚ąö2 = 1.414 ¬† ¬†and ¬† ¬†1 / ‚ąö2 = 0.707 ¬†)

acdc_comparison.gif

So if as in the diagram above:      Peak x 0.707 = V (the DC Voltage equivalent) then    V / 0.707 = Peak

Or to put it another way: ¬† ¬† ¬† ¬† ¬† ¬† ¬†¬†Peak / ‚ąö2 = V so then¬†‚ąö2 x V = Peak

So while yes, in a 12V AC supply the RMS (root mean square) voltage is 12V, the actual peak voltage reaches 17V !!! Hence, dead LED, lol.

EDIT: I know that 12V RMS AC is supposed to be the "equivalent" in terms of energy dissipation (heating effect) as 12V DC, but I am thinking that the way the LED unit is constructed may have led to other heating effects in addition to that 17V wave peak, such as electromagnetic heating within the components due to the continually-fluctuating current (which it's not designed to handle) causing corresponding magnetic field fluctuations in the components (it has a rectifier and each led chip has a resistor) leading to opposing currents through mutual electromagnetic induction (due to the close proximity of all the bulb internal circuit components) opposing the original current. This heat would build up in the unit which of course is encased in the rubber holder - an insulator - which is then inside the dash module. Add to that the hot summer Texas sun and enough heat builds up to melt the bulb plastic and even the solder holding the tiny circuit boards together.

Long story short, I need a bulb built to handle higher loads. ūü§Ē

Edited by TexasScoot

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Posted

I too have thought of such AC/DC converters. Seems to me that ideally one would need two of these per headlight, i.e. one of the low beam circuit and another for the high beam circuit (or in my case a total of four!) Seems like a I'll need a lot of space inside my housing. :P

M

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Posted

Well the led headlamps I'm using are 20W low beam, and a total of 35W high beam, per bulb. The stock bulbs were also 35W. So one converter per bulb should be ok.

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Posted (edited)

I was thinking something along these lines:

 

 

 

TaoTao_Quantum_Tour_150cc.JPG.AC-DC headlights.jpg

Edited by MJSfoto1956

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Posted (edited)

Yep exactly. I was thinking you need one for the high beam, which on these lights I have are 15W (they come on in addition to the low beam creating a total of 35W output) and then one for the low beam, which are 20W each. But now I just realized since that converter I was looking at is only 36W power handling, the two low beams would burn it out, since they'd equal a total of 40W on that circuit. So yeah, total High Beam circuit is 30W (2 x 15W) and total Low Beam circuit is 40W (2 x 20W). So your diagram is correct - the converter would need to go in the middle of the wiring harness before it splits to each bulb (snip it in half and then attach bullet connectors to the wires) but I'd need a stronger converter for the Low Beam circuit, unless I want to use 2 converters for Low Beam - 1 for each bulb. I'm already getting short on space in the headlight housing due to the LED Driver boxes in there so I guess it depends on the physical size of the converter boxes.

So, back to the question of whether the headlight circuit is AC or DC?... The stator shown on the Eagle Parts website is AC since the CDI pole is wrapped, according to the picture (attached). So does this mean the headlights are definitely AC?

If I have followed your circuit diagram correctly, the headlamps get their power from the CDI which is for sure AC, so therefore the headlights are AC. Their power doesn't appear to come from the rectifier. Have I got this correct?

Q150_stator.JPEG

Edited by TexasScoot

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Posted (edited)

Ok I think I have confused myself lol smh. I just remembered Dan's answer to my question on headlights here: http://www.dansgaragetalk.com/topic/874-quantum-150-headlight-bulb-upgrades/ where he explains the headlights are DC. Also, I see the Meter Indicator (which I guess is the battery indicator) and the stop light also run off the same power supply so it has to be DC. 

However, my Q150 is the newer type - it doesn't have a battery indicator or an oil pressure indicator. It has the simpler analog dash. Man, I am so confused. I think I was looking at the IC connection on the diagram which I am guessing actually means Ignition Coil. But the power the headlamps feed off is indirectly coming from the Bat connection I think which of course is DC. But if my Q150 is the newer one, does this diagram even still apply?

i guess the AC CDI¬†has nothing to do with the headlamps being AC or DC¬†lol. See? I learned something. ūüėā I guess I had this idea in my head that the headlamps are such relatively¬†high power that they are somehow tied into the CDI which would also explain why they only come on with the engine haha - hence my confusion.

ok so I think we have established that the headlamps are DC, which is great because we don't need any converters! But that doesn't explain why my blue high beam indicator light keeps blowing with these new 20W/35W led headlamps! They shouldn't be drawing more current than the original bulbs which were 35W/35W. I can only think that there are some sort of spikes being generated? Total guess there. Maybe these leds actually draw less current leaving more for the dash indicator, causing it to be brighter and hotter than with the regular bulbs, hot enough to destroy it? Perhaps the incandescent bulbs helped filter out spikes somewhat, and the led driver boxes don't? I have no idea honestly.

Well anyway, the new blue led I ordered is rated for 12V AC or 10-30V DC so either way it should hopefully handle whatever is going on with my high beam circuit lol. I'll know this weekend when I get it installed.

Edited by TexasScoot

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Posted (edited)

should be simple to test -- do you have a multimeter? (something every motorcyclist should own btw!) If so, put your test leads on the bulb wires in question. Set the multimeter to AC and test the voltage. Then set it to DC and test again. The results should speak for themselves.

M

P.S. the diagram isn't mine -- I simply grabbed it from Dan's "wiring diagram" page. I assumed it was for your bike...

 

TaoTao_Quantum_Tour_150cc.JPG.AC-DC headlights.jpg

Edited by MJSfoto1956

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Posted

I do have a meter somewhere. I'll try and dig it out. And yep, that's my bike, but I guess mine is the 2nd version with the cheaper dash.

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Posted

I found my multimeter so I'll give that a try the next chance I get. I'm betting they are DC though.

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Posted

Btw, I educated myself by watching some YouTube videos lol. So now I get how a stator/magneto works, and what a CDI is and how it works. 

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